Curse

Lady Frost Bite · Dec 17, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

all of you kill me..why is it such a big deal if a group of 8 want to play a special build for the rest of their lives..who are we to judge. I played a e/r for the longest time until i found IWAY. do i play iway all the time..no. do i care if i get my a$$ kicked in tombs by an iway group if i am not playing iway..no. i am not rank 3 i don't care if i ever get rank 3 or any higher than that. i am here to play a GAME and have FUN. if i play iway in the morning to wake up(which is what i normally do) and if i run a tf ax warrior in my guilds gvg battle and kill almost everyone i come up against then so be it. Myself and my guild feel that you can only win if you play a toon that you are used to and if you have fun. if y'all can't understand that this is just a game then maybe you should go play something else where no one can hear you bi**h

Timoz · Dec 17, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Ok i havent read all the pages on this as i dont have so much time for that although after reading a few on the first page i thought i would reply.

I'm currently rank 10, although memories of where you are now still stick with me

Now, the ways i got my rank and got into groups:
Made my own groups and builds.
Made my own guild.
Joined other guilds whom i know are skilled players with competent leaders.
Developed a full friends list whom i could make a group with or ask if they have space or anything.

Why there are so many more complaints than there used to be:
People are getting incraesingly lazy
People have less experience with a variety of characters and more with limited characters such as a warrior with a pet... heh.. and a necromancer.
(id like to meet a rank 6- who has ever played monk.)

Back when i was your rank, it was the days of spirit spam, and yes most of the new people played this as well as some other people ( i know at least one person who got over 8k fame from this )

Now i've seen complaints about the whole ranking system and how it doesnt mean people are better or what have you... But there are a large amount of people who have my kind of rank, the difference is about 90% of those people quit the game long ago or even recently due to lame builds like iway all over the tombs and a complete lack of variety and cluster of 'newbies'. Many of the now 'top' guilds would not stand a chance against players who left long ago.

yes.. so this keeps the cycle going, although for some of those that continue playing you will find are very bad players as they farmed their fame through one relatively unskilled tactic eg. spirit spam, iway and therefore haven't experienced the other professions yet and so carry on playing. Not to mention ebay accounts.

(you will find the first person soon to get rank 12 got at least 7k fame from spirit spam, he too is not such a good player imo)

Now, the reason i've bothered writing this. Rank does hurt the system very much so, although lets face it if there was no kind of reward such as rank or a rating system you wouldnt even be here tombing. The one thing rank is good for is showing experience as with all that fame you must have faced a good variety of builds. I, along with a few people i know will not play in a group with people i do not know.

So.. build up your contacts list.. and maybe try making your own groups and build, there are so many simple builds on forums around. Main thing is to get a good guild competetive guild. If your with your friends simply recruit others, i started playing this game with about 5 good friends of myn, one of them has played with me the whole way, others just abandoned the game.

Sephir Demange · Dec 18, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

This whole freaking thread is pointless. The issue isn't as much about these people who apparently genuinely enjoy playing a build that, in my opinion, is mindless. The problem is new comers get to tombs, see that everyone is looking for rX's and rX's only, and realize that IWAY is a quick, easy, and effective solution to the problem. The problem is these "skilled" iways foster the idea in the new comers that IWAY must be great build that they too can use to get *omg* sigils and win HoH. Thus the whole thing snowballs until the number of iways is disgusting. But I'm so done with this crap, it's been going on for FAR too long. Eventually people will move past this iway bull, just like with spirit spamming, and all of the FoTM's. I just hope that day comes sooner rather than later. Not simply because I dislike the concept of the iway build, but simply because I don't even remotely enjoy fighting 10 teams running the same damn thing on every single run.

Navaros · Dec 18, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

The thing is, the devs nerf any build that PUGS can use. Spirit spam was overpowered and it needed to be nerfed.

Smiting, not so. Yet smiting got nerfed anyhow.

Air Ele spike, didn't need to be nerfed, yet the devs nerfed it anyhow.

Which is kind of funny because now there are more powerful spikes than that.

My point is that what do you expect people to do given that the devs keeps swinging the nerf bat against each and every build that PUGs are able to use with a decent margin of success. The devs bashing madly with their nerf bat until all PUG builds are smithereens leaves people with little choice of what to run.

So, don't blame IWAYers for you seeing the same build all the time. The fair blame belongs on the devs' shoulders for:

1. Swinging the nerf bat too much thus limiting choice of build.

2. Making PVP so complex that putting together a decent build with decent players takes upwards of an hour each time and the use of third party voice software.

asdar · Dec 18, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

I think you hit part of the solution in number 2.

It takes too long to set up a build in Tombs.

That's why they should have slots to remember builds available to players.

One key to use your PvP slot and then like the pre-built list you see a list of your personal pre-built PvP builds. Click on one and then on the map to Tombs and go.

I have all skills/runes/equip unlock but most of my teams don't so I end up filling in wherever the shortage is. I'd love for there to be a personal pre-built list.

Lorien of Mandos · Dec 18, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

It takes too long to set up a build in Tombs.

You need to make that read "It takes too long to set up a good build in Tombs." If you want a quick group accept one of the blind invites from one of the w/mo's. If you want a team that actually stands a chance you will need to invest some time before entering so everyone knows their role, skillbars have been coordinated and tweaked, etc etc. You may as well not do Tombs at all if you want quick, because to do it properly takes an investment of time, plus you must also factor in the time spent if you actually manage to advance and win and then hold the hall for awhile. If you want quick, go play Bejewelled on Yahoo or something....

glenn_rolfe · Dec 18, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Smiting, not so. Yet smiting got nerfed anyhow.

Air Ele spike, didn't need to be nerfed, yet the devs nerfed it anyhow.

Which is kind of funny because now there are more powerful spikes than that.

2. Making PVP so complex that putting together a decent build with decent players takes upwards of an hour each time and the use of third party voice software.

Couple of points. Smiting was nerfed because all the top teams were running it. If all the best teams are running 1 build only, then it would be reasonable to think that everyone will copy it, and thus we'd be left with 1 build in PvP.

Air spike has been the most powerful spike in the game because chain lightning could spike down multiple targets in a single spike.

The difficult thing about PvP PUG's is not the build, but getting players to work as a team because as we al know, there's just too many individuals out there that know better than everyone else because they once won halls

Mystical · Dec 21, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoz

(id like to meet a rank 6- who has ever played monk.)

Proud to say I monked pretty much all the way to r3 and still monk on and off now depending on the build.

crimsonfilms · Dec 21, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Monk I say 90% of the time to Rank 5. No plans to change either. I can play any class really well (except mediocre Mes) but I love monking the most.
The other 10% consist of random builds for the sake of the party...

glenn_rolfe · Dec 21, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Monk I say 90% of the time to Rank 5. No plans to change either. I can play any class really well (except mediocre Mes) but I love monking the most.
The other 10% consist of random builds for the sake of the party...

There are R9's that have only ever monked. It use to be the easiest way to get into a PUG. And some don't even prot, only heal.

Dunno what I think of those guys, a great monk is your greatest asset, but only playing monk........I dunno, sort of missing a massive portion of the game.

Guess it's like being a specialist goal keeper.

SaintGreg · Dec 21, 2005, 06:48 AM // 06:48

The thing I don't like most about tombs is that it seems all tombs builds have some sort of schtupp. 95% + of tombs builds you will face fall into one of these categories:

crappy balanced
iway and derivatives
ranger spike
energy denial
stop casting foo (multiple illusion mesmers with interrupts)

Most (I emphasize that not all, but most) tombs builds are just copies of copies, maybe slightly changed a bit. Ranger spike is a formula, IWAY is a formula, there isn't a whole lot of differences between one schtupp build and the next, so you end up playing the same thing nearly time after time, and it gets tiresome.

tafy69 · Dec 21, 2005, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGreg

The thing I don't like most about tombs is that it seems all tombs builds have some sort of schtupp. 95% + of tombs builds you will face fall into one of these categories:

crappy balanced
iway and derivatives
ranger spike
energy denial
stop casting foo (multiple illusion mesmers with interrupts)

Most (I emphasize that not all, but most) tombs builds are just copies of copies, maybe slightly changed a bit. Ranger spike is a formula, IWAY is a formula, there isn't a whole lot of differences between one schtupp build and the next, so you end up playing the same thing nearly time after time, and it gets tiresome.

Whats a Schtupp?

And why are balanced teams crappy?

Daneish · Dec 21, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Balanced builds, in and of themselves, aren't crappy, but in tombs, you're likely to come up against a very poorly constructed balanced build.

IWAY is just a big roll of the dice that becomes very dangerous when legitimately coordinated.

Rank is, well, useless. People can IWAY farm their way to rank 6. They can play either an IWAY warrior, a trapper, or an Order Necro. Congratulations. If you're that IWAY warrior, you can make the transition to TF warrior, maybe. The order necro can play in the dying embers of ranger spike, and the trapper has a home in FotM. What you've got is a corps of players that just aren't versatile/good.

But there's the irony of it all; there's virtually nothing out there for players ranked under 3, and IWAY has "progressed" to the point of req'ing rank 3 players. If unranked, and therefore somewhat inexperienced, players form a group together, they're liable to get steamrolled by IWAY or the rank 3+, rank 6+, and rank 9+ groups running around tombs, not to mention the guild groups. Yeah, you'll get better, getting mowed down over and over, but part of becoming a good player is learning how to win, which is increasingly difficult when groups are formed on the Rank requisite. This just perpetuates the "Rich get richer and the poor get poorer" cliche'.

glenn_rolfe · Dec 21, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGreg

The thing I don't like most about tombs is that it seems all tombs builds have some sort of schtupp. 95% + of tombs builds you will face fall into one of these categories:

crappy balanced
iway and derivatives
ranger spike
energy denial
stop casting foo (multiple illusion mesmers with interrupts)

.

Watch out for a big explosion in pressure builds

leeky baby · Dec 21, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

im rank 7 i play mesmer or monk i hate i playe d iway a few times when it first ''came out'' but its jsut getting ricdiclous people have gained ranks through iway without even trying to paly other thigns or no hwo to make there owns teams i was playing in a rank 6+ team which was balanced 2 mes 1 w/e 1 necro 1 ele 2 healers prot, this lead to a healer using vigrous spirt :s mending at rank 6 OMG i was like WTF i checked his rank and he was rank 6 said i thought i would try soemting but iway rank 6s who have got through iway have little skill and are making rank 6 teams bad

Del12 · Dec 21, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Smiting, not so. Yet smiting got nerfed anyhow.

Air Ele spike, didn't need to be nerfed, yet the devs nerfed it anyhow.

A few months ago, every group in tombs had damage based around an e/mo smiter (or two) and warriors. These smite groups were as common as iway groups are now, if not more. That definitely needed a nerf just because this kinda damage was superior to any other kind.

I think air spike was way over nerfed. Chain lightning went from probably the best air skill, to one that is questionable to even take up a skillslot. Air spike groups aren't even worth running anymore. I don't even include air eles in balanced builds anymore either.

I just think they could nerf (or enhance) skills more intelligently. Anyways, that's kinda off thread topic...

leeky baby · Dec 21, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

i think the only way to nerf iway is the orders-which is bad cause that would stop ranger spike who use the orders!

leeky baby · Dec 21, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

A few months ago, every group in tombs had damage based around an e/mo smiter (or two) and warriors. These smite groups were as common as iway groups are now, if not more. That definitely needed a nerf just because this kinda damage was superior to any other kind.

I think air spike was way over nerfed. Chain lightning went from probably the best air skill, to one that is questionable to even take up a skillslot. Air spike groups aren't even worth running anymore. I don't even include air eles in balanced builds anymore either.

I just think they could nerf (or enhance) skills more intelligently. Anyways, that's kinda off thread topic...

AIR spike can still be used i have been in a team the timeing just had to be better, although peopel are running earth spiek with the obison flame

which is hard to stop cause is only 5 energy instead of 15 for orb.

glenn_rolfe · Dec 22, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeky baby

i think the only way to nerf iway is the orders-which is bad cause that would stop ranger spike who use the orders!

you'd stop IWAY being charged by pets and only by party members if you wanted to nerf it.
Which let's face it, should really be the intention of the skill. When your comrade dies you go into a short rage. That's cool. But when your pet dies, you just flush it down the toilet

Daneish · Dec 22, 2005, 04:33 AM // 04:33

What Rolfe said. Make IWAY just for party members, and the world has regained balance.